Someone in the Degrowth group just asked this question. A lot of people were suggesting bans on leisure travel, certain types of consumer goods, advertising, etc.

I commented:

The last thing we did — and perhaps the ONLY thing we (collectively) did — that resulted in an immediate dramatic reduction in GHGs and eco destruction, was to shut down air travel and non-essential ground travel.  Plus reducing nonessential manufacturing helped as well.

That’s what we saw during the pandemic shutdowns.

Since no government is likely to do that again, and since even if a government were to attempt it, widespread noncompliance is likely, I believe our best hope lies in a grassroots movement de-popularizing air travel and car travel.

And popularizing the idea of minimizing travel in general. For example, contenting ourselves with annual train trip to visit family. Or else move near our family.

As part of this, popularizing living on the same continent with one’s family. De-popularizing the idea that we should continue living oceans away from our loved ones if we want to see them.

Such a grassroots movement may not seem realistic. But it is more realistic than waiting for any government to take drastic action. And, basically a grassroots movement de-normalizing consumption does exist. It just doesn’t necessarily exist as a monolith. It can be found in multiple groups, including the Degrowth group itself. And, groups such as the non-consumer advocate, journey to zero waste, etc. A lot of these people are de-normalizing USA-style consumption. And USA-style consumption (which alas has metastasized throughout much of Europe and other continents) is the main culprit of destruction on this planet.

For the past couple of decades, I have been involved in a grassroots movement to denormalize hyperconsumption of all categories.

It’s hard to measure, but it does seem like it is growing, based on the number of groups I participate in. And, positivity is contagious.

Most of the people in this movement are motivated by something more than fear. A lot of people are having fun saving money, taking back their time, reducing the hold that oppressive bosses and unnecessary consumerism-fueled chores have over them, etc.

One common misconception that holds back the anti-consumerist movement from gaining more traction more quickly, is the idea that we have to give up all treats. The truth is that (for example) personal adornment, etc. has existed in all cultures since the beginning of time. Same with a little bit of travel, various recreational substances for altering consciousness, and other pleasures.

Also:

Since I first posted a list of what I consider to be cells of the voluntary de-consumerist movement, more groups have been added.

Riot for Austerity Is the first group I found, back in I don’t know 2006-7 or something, When a friend clued me in to it.

In more recent years, I have stumbled on:

Deep Adaptation
Degrowth – it’s urgent
The Non-Consumer Advocate
Zero Waste, Zero Judgement

As well as local buy-nothing groups, etc. And Permaculture guilds, bio regionalist guilds, rewilding groups, Transition Towns etc. All of these are cells of radical thrift / de-normalizing mainstream consumerism in some form or other.

And various textile up-cycling, crafting, artisanry of all kinds, brewing, beekeeping etc. etc. — a lot of these guys are sort of unofficially going through the gate of non-consumerism.

Is everybody doing thrift in every category? No. But, what we are doing is reinforcing the validity and benefits of radical reduction. This is self reinforcing. The more aware and deliberate we become, that the task is to popularize reduction, the more quickly it will catch on.

The more mainstream environmentalist groups, on the other hand, are often busy chatting up the glories of electric cars and solar panels and all that.

Yes, it can be depressing when people in the more mainstream environmentalist groups are still talking about that hopium stuff — as well as posting about taking cruises and doing leisure flights etc. And owning houses in multiple countries etc. And, so often, nobody calls them out. In fact, most people cheer them on. And that’s in an environmentalist circle.

But, I guess we need to start being more of the somebody’s. We can support each other!

And, since a ban in advertising is very unlikely to be very easy to implement — there would be so much pushback from multi-billion dollar industries and all whose pockets they feed — we have to be the ones inoculating ourselves against the power of advertising and social norms.

For example, parents have to support and validate each other in taking anti-consumerist stances regarding raising their children.

And, we as individuals have to take our own inner selves in hand, and prioritize nurturing ourselves emotionally so that we won’t be such susceptible targets for advertising & toxic social norms. I noticed that I am less likely to engage in excess consumerism if I am spending enough time with friends, creative projects, nature (even if it’s just a short walk in a park) etc.

Thank you for starting this awesome thread!
I’m glad you mentioned the slow fashion, fiber upcycling etc. Those too are definitely a kind of Trojan horse for overall anti-consumerism. Same with groups dedicated to blacksmithing, winemaking, beekeeping etc. Like little pockets of oldtimey artisanship.

While it might not seem like they would make an immediate difference, I think that as things get popularized, there tends to be a flashpoint where it catches on like wildfire. I basically consider it an exercise in behavioral economics.

Although it’s a sad and unfortunate thing, a major factor in favor of thrift catching on like wildfire is that more and more people are becoming caught on the losing end of global economic prosperity. People have more motivation to do things like learn how to do without a car, learn how to do without air conditioning etc.

Also I meant to mention the transition towns movement. Some of these movements are quite long-standing, and I think a lot of the people in them just got tired and are welcoming an opportunity for something to reenergize them.

Comment I posted in response to a like-minded friend who was urging people to stop calling for “mass deportation”; and stop assuming that immigrants are likely to commit crime. (In fact, studies have widely shown that immigrants are the least crime-committing segment of the USA population.)

On a related note, I think the USA needs to be prepared to welcome many many more climate refugees coming across our borders. We need to stop this narrative that we don’t have enough space and enough resources! We have tons of space and tons of resources. Plus, I seem to notice that whenever people are willing to share, things always seem to work out.

Immigrants have enriched our country immensely. Xenophobia is quite un-American. All the more so if you believe, as I do, that in many cases *our own government’s policies* have increased the misery quotient that causes people to feel pressed to leave their homelands and try to make a life in the USA.

Now I will say, I feel like if I were Mexican (or from another country where a lot of immigrants come from), I would probably want to try to find any possible way to go back to my beautiful country and culture, given that the streets are not paved with gold here in the USA. There’s no substitute for one’s family and land and culture.

(Starting a compilation of online, worldwide groups that are supporting people emotionally/spiritually regarding the eco/social crisis. This support helps us to become more effective in nurturing and supporting our local communities.)

Very important note: Online may be your/our best hope of connecting with the grassroots green mobilization, for many reasons. So please do check out the online channels I list here.

However, there is no substitute for actually going out in your local area and meeting people. Take walks through your neighborhood, and talk with other people who happen to be out. Even if you just say hi in passing. Do this over time; you’ll get to recognize people’s faces and I’ll get to recognize yours.

We cannot afford to not be connected with people. The idea that this is even possible is an anomaly of modern-day consumerist affluenza. No previous time since the dawn of human history has it been at all viable for a human being to feel like they don’t have anybody around them who has anything in common with them.

No, by no means will all the people you meet in your immediate area have much in common with you. But you can’t assume, without talking with people, that you don’t have things in common. Lots of people have been falling into this grandiose isolationism; I keep hearing from people who feel like they alone are this isolated dot in a sea of oppositely thinking people.

OK! So in addition to cultivating local connections, tap into these online groups (sorry, the private groups I am unable to paste links for, so you just have to type their name into your search field):

Groups (these are on Facebook, except the ones for your local region — which could also be on Facebook):

Degrowth – it’s urgent; Degrowth – join the revolution; Deep Adaptation; Riot for Austerity (90% Reduction Challenge) (the one I bring up in my talks and so on).

Transition Towns, your local permaculture guild, your local bioregional organization.

Journey to zero waste; Zero waste zero judgment; Non-consumerist advocate.

Various textile upcycling groups. Your local buy-nothing group.

Here’s a recent thing I heard about: Search “underconsumerism core” in any app. Sort of a riff on “cottage core,” with an emphasis on repairing and reusing, and appreciating the aesthetic of loved and worn-out objects.

Online meetups:

1. Collapse Club (The following is from Collapse Club’s website)

“At Collapse Club, we gather to answer the question: “How are we to live in the time of collapse?”

“To Attend a Meeting

“If you have not already attended a meeting, please sign up to receive the Zoom link. If you have already attended a meeting, you’ll get the link in a reminder email.

• CLICK TO SIGN UP AND GET THE ZOOM LINK.

“A Sense of Belonging

“In this time of crisis and catastrophe, our comfort is to be with other people who understand what we’re going through. In a Collapse Club meeting, you will join like-minded people in a safe, structured space to share your experience of collapse and to cultivate communal wisdom.

“We hold three meetings per week, on Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday. You are welcome at any or all. Meetings are free and without obligation.

• For more information, please visit our website at CollapseClub.com.

“Benefits of a Collapse Club meeting:

• Relief from isolation: You are not alone.
• Be heard: Express and process your feelings.
• Receive empathy and support: We are people who understand.
• Learn from others’ experience: We’re going through it, too.
• Participate in a communal search for meaning: We’re all on the path.

How do meetings work?

We have a simple agenda built around questions which invite you to share your personal experience of collapse:

1. Check-In – What have you noticed about collapse this week?
2. Circles – How are you living with collapse? 
3. Glimmers – What brings you joy in the midst of collapse?

In our meetings, we want to hear about your personal lived experience. We are not discussing theories or politics, and if we talk about the news we focus on how it impacts our personal lives. We are interested in you personally, because it is from your personal lived experience that all thinking and action emerge.

For a detailed description of how our meetings work, please visit our Meeting Flow page.

• For more information, please visit our website at CollapseClub.com.

Search tag: CollapseClub”

NO. No, it is not. I keep trying to dispel this widespread misconception. But it doesn’t seem to sink in, so I will keep trying to spread the word.

Following is a link to an article that sums up the current regulations, state by state, for each state of the USA. (Other countries have few or no restrictions, I gather.)

“Is it Illegal to Collect Rainwater: 2024 Complete State Guide” (Jeremiah Zac; on worldwaterreserve.com; updated January 5, 2024.)

“Is rainwater collection illegal?”

“Many US states encourage rainwater harvesting but a few have limits due to local conditions.”

As the article mentions, the most restrictive state is Colorado, where people are only allowed to collect a total of 110 gallons at a time. A few states require engineering and or permits and such, but most states do not.

Also note, they are only talking about what we collect in barrels and other containers. As Brad Lancaster and other experts have often told us, what we collect in containers is just a tiny fraction of what we can easily collect on the land with simple micro earthworks. And most of the rainwater we’d be collecting would be for use on trees, plants, the land anyway. What we need for drinking and cooking is a relatively small quantity. And what we need for a bathing can and should be adjusted closely to local conditions. If you live in the desert, you develop very radical modes of water conservation while staying clean.

The best way to collect most of the rainwater we need is through healthy soil and plants.

By the way, if you do happen to live in a place where there are extreme restrictions on collecting rainwater, I would suggest you either move if you can; or make it your business to get the restrictions eased. This is an essential issue.

But, how did this widespread misconception get started? Check out the following article:

“Rainwater Collection Leads to Jail Sentence? How News Headlines Get it Wrong” (Chris Maxwell-Gaines; watercache.com)

Long story short:

“Let’s get this straight… rainwater collection will not get you arrested. Illegally impounding a tributary and damming millions of gallons of water that by law belongs to the state… will get you arrested. (Tweet this) There is a huge difference here.”

(Post from July 6.)

Just paid my major repair and maintenance bill for the year for my vehicle, which is my main mode of transport besides walking. Grand total $380 + change. Sometimes even lasts two years.

Special thank you to Votran bus system. The closest bicycle shops are 7 miles away in either direction, so being able to put a bicycle onto the rack on the front of the bus and then ride the bus to the bicycle shop is a lifesaver!

See pix here.

(Bus route info: I take the 19 which goes north up the A1A and then across Granada bridge to the bike shop, which is on Granada across the street from Winn-Dixie. And then to get home I take the 3B down Ridgewood. Today I was able to ride my bicycle partway home down Ridgewood, before my shoulder started telling me I better grab the bus the rest of the way. My shoulder is doing great compared with last week, and I’m not going to push my luck.)

Response to questions and comments:

• Response to a fellow activist commending me for “replacing car trips,” and asking me to post more often about my bicycle riding:

Thanks!

1- I don’t actually “replace” car trips; I simply do not own a car. Nor want to. I have better things to do with $20 to 50k to buy one, plus $12,000 a year to operate one. (When there is someplace I need to go that I cannot safely get to by bicycle, and the bus does not go there, I pay a friend/neighbor to be my taxi. Usually ends up costing me a total of about $100 to $200 a year for rides. Very affordable, And I am helping a friend pay their bills.)

2- Actually too many people are aware that I get around by foot & bicycle, and it causes various issues. I don’t end up being a beneficial influence. So, in my public communications, I prefer to focus mainly on the advocacy aspect. For example, I have been making public posts inviting people to the upcoming meetup of Walkable Volusia. And, I frequently speak at city commission and citizen board meetings regarding transit-friendly zoning and planning, pedestrian-friendly downtowns, Boosting awareness of the importance of Street trees, and so on.

• To someone praising me as a role model for using bicycle and public transport:

Well, the backstory is that I do not make enough money to have both a car and a roof over my head. (Well, technically I could, but then I would have to give up too many things that I love in life, including volunteering, and donating to worthwhile causes. And, being able to spend more money with Florida farms, local businesses, instead of having to shop at big-box stores.) Never have made that much money. But I wouldn’t trade my work for anything. So it’s very fortunate for me that I genuinely do not want a car.

Some people have told me that for them it’s better to have a car if you have to choose between car and housing, because you could always live in the car. But in my experience, living in a vehicle is not all that easy. (I have only done it for very very short stints, and it was always my choice and I was not forced into it, unlike many other people.) Not because of the small space but because there are fewer and fewer places to park where a person doesn’t risk getting arrested. Plus I know so many people who are living in their vehicles and then the vehicle breaks down.

At least with a house or apartment, a person can have housemates to share the rent or mortgage. Not as easy to do that with a car.

And regarding motorcycles, I love riding them but I realized that for a person starting out at my age, it is not a smart hobby. So I took the FDOT course a couple years ago, got my motorcycle endorsement added to my license, and had a fun year of motorcycle ownership and then sold the bike.

Yes, I like not being forced to own a car! And I love being able to do better things with that money. Unfortunately, a lot of people are basically forced to own a car. It takes a huge bite out of the wallet and causes enormous amounts of stress.

When I was 13 or 14, I found bunches and bunches of tiny shells on the beach in Massachusetts (a beach where we would go when we would visit my grandparents – Mom’s side). The shells were inside of these interesting-looking strings of gray-yellow translucent casings that I saw and got curious about. I broke one open, and found that each little chamber would have like 50 or 100 tiny shells in it!

I allowed the little shells to dry out, and then very patiently strung them on thread using a fine needle. The resulting double-strand necklace has held up surprisingly well and was one of my favorite necklaces for many decades.

Well, fast-forward almost 50 years later, I find out that what I had assumed were empty shells were baby whelks. Little tiny baby whelks. I’m sorry, little babies!

How I found out: Recently, after all this time, I got curious and searched around on the web and found this article. (“Whelks and whelk management” from the mass.gov website.)

I haven’t felt like wearing the necklace since then. But, I’m trying to do my part to share information about these little guys.

“The species range along the east coast from southern Massachusetts to Florida. Massachusetts represents the northern geographic range for these species and the animals are generally confined to the waters south and west of Cape Cod. This includes Nantucket Sound, Vineyard Sound, Buzzards Bay and Mount Hope Bay. Movement is thought to be limited with only small scale seasonal migrations of less than several miles. …

“Based of field observations, whelk tend to spawn during the late summer period. Males directly fertilize the females and more than one male may fertilize a female. Females then develop their egg casings overtime. When spawning begins, the large casings are released in strings by the female whelks and anchored to the sediment. Whelks then hatch about nine months after the egg strings are deposited. There is no larval period for these animals.

“Stock Status
“DMF considers channeled whelk to be depleted throughout their range within the waters under the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth. A 2018 stock assessment of channeled whelk within Nantucket Sound showed this resource to be overfished with overfishing occurring.”

Fun tidbit: A blogger who grew up in Massachusetts wrote this nice detailed post about Barneys Joy beach & surrounding area. Took lots of great photos too. (Fun fact, that hurricane of 1938 was what prompted Grandma’s family to move a little bit back from the beach. Not sure, but I may be the first member of my family since then who has moved to live in walking distance of the Atlantic Ocean.)

Paul Wheaton (of permies.com fame) wrote this gem of an article where he delves deep into a student’s question, “How do we get permaculture apples into Safeway?”

Along with enjoying learning details of growing and marketing apples, I appreciated his words regarding the pitfalls of focusing on financial wealth:

When you spend any time understanding the world’s problems you get that horrible feeling of “that could happen to me!” followed immediately by “how do I add safety to my life so that won’t happen to me?”

The first piece is “if I had a million dollars I could make safety for me.” – in time, I think most people start to come to the conclusion that that is a poor type of safety – you would need to buy just the right things, and without knowledge, you could buy the wrong things, or not install the right things correctly. And then as you start to learn all the things to make the million dollars be safe …. I think (and I’m sure a few billion people with have different thoughts) all roads lead to permaculture and homesteading.

So if a person has a head full of homesteading and permaculture, a solid home, their energy needs are itty bitty, and they are growing four times more food than they could ever eat … and they have $4,000 in the bank and $10,000 hidden under the mattress …. maybe that person now has more safety than the earlier person with a million dollars in hand.

Now, as I have often commented, the “homesteading” mentality has its shortcomings.

For one thing, a lot of us in the permie movement are unintentionally causing gentrification and other suffering by trying to have too much land. We should be occupying the minimum amount of land possible, and if we have extra, we could be returning surplus by sharing the land with other, less-fortunate people.

Personally, I’m not going to lie, but I find even my 1/10 of an urban acre way more than a handful to manage. Granted, I’m not trying to grow all my own food, but I wouldn’t be trying to do that alone *anywhere*.

Or we don’t have to be buying extra land; we can be buying old commercial buildings in blighted downtown areas and letting young people launch their businesses there. Now, the reality is I don’t personally know very many permies who are in a position financially to do that. I’m just pointing out that if a person has extra money, just buying up land and letting it sit is not the regenerative thing. That said, it is better than parking money in a mutual fund and supporting corporations.

(Many of us don’t believe in land ownership, and that’s a whole separate conversation. I would like to live in a world where people can have security of residence without needing to own land.)

Anyway, go read Paul’s article about apples; it’s a real treat. And, I don’t think I’m doing a “spoiler” by telling you that in the end it’s really not about getting your hyperlocal apples into Safeway or any grocery-store chain at all! It’s about reexamining our whole mentality around the food-supply chain.

And, if you apply it to your own life and situation, you might find Paul’s advice is applicable to other “crops” (both physical and intangible) besides apples.

BTW you don’t have to create an account on permies.com to read the posts; they are public. But, creating an account is free and then you get to participate in quite a variety of worthwhile conversations.

As is the case with other homesteading circles I know of, there is a lot of emphasis on the “growing food” aspect, but there are plenty of conversations about invisible structures and home economics as well. I particularly enjoy following the “threads” about sewing.

PS. Wherever you live, I encourage you to partake of your local fruits. Learn their seasons, learn to grow them if you can, and make them a regular seasonal part of your diet. Right now, for example, extremely delicious passion fruit are ripening in our area. I have never been able to grow them, but that doesn’t matter because there are vines overhanging the sidewalk at an empty house nearby. (A lot of people say they don’t like fruit trees etc. because they “attract rodents.” So basically I am doing those people a favor by grabbing fruit off the ground haha.) Also, a couple of friends on my local social-media feed have access to prolific vines, so if I wanted to I could probably trade something. I haven’t had to buy any fruit in 2 weeks!